The final episode of (Un)marginalised Season 2 has been created from our launch event for this season. It includes some audience responses and even a part of our audience Q & A.

In this episode I told the story behind the (Un)marginalised podcast, then spoke with Carly Findlay about ableism, lateral violence, connection & mentorship, curiosity versus nosiness, Intersectional Feminism, disability advocacy, disabled leadership and much more!

Content note for ableism, sexism, racism and sexual violence

Connect with Carly:

• Website: https://carlyfindlay.com.au/ 

  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/carlyfindlay/

• Support the ongoing making of the podcast on Liel’s Patreon account: https://www.patreon.com/LielKBridgford

  • If you need support – you can contact Lifeline on 13 11 14 in Australia (24/7). If you’re anywhere else, find support on: https://www.befrienders.org

  Connect with Liel & continue the conversation on:

  • Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/lielkbridgford/

  • Twitter https://twitter.com/LielKBridgford 

  • Facebook https://www.facebook.com/lielkbridgford

  • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/liel-bridgford-73499199/

  Please note views expressed by podcast interviewees do not necessarily reflect the views of Liel or the Kultivate team.

Episode Transcript

[Theme music]

Liel (L): Shalom everybody. I’m Liel K Bridgford and this is (Un)marginalised. Before we begin, please note that the following episode contains discussions about ableism, sexism and sexual violence, so please take care as you listen and check out our show notes for support options. This episode was created from the launch event of the (Un)marginalised season 2 that I produced and hosted in October 2022, as apart of Melbourne Fringe Festival. This was my first time recording live with an audience, and I loved experiencing people’s responses and reactions to the content. The episode is an edited version of the event, and includes the story behind the podcast, a live interview with Carly Findlay and an audience Q&A. 

[Theme music fades out].

L: Alright, let’s jump in. 

[Theme music. It fades out after 17 seconds].

L: Shalom everybody. I’m Liel K Bridgford and this is (Un)marginalised. Before we begin, I want to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which we are meeting today, the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation, and pay my respect to their elders, past, present, and emerging. Some housekeeping business before we begin. I’m a white looking person in my early thirties, with uh, brown shoulder length hair that’s pulled back at the moment, and I am wearing a very colourful jacket, a golden top and a burgundy dress, and very colourful earrings as well. The last, final thing to get out of the way is my name. Yup. So my name is Liel, and many of you Aussies, if you identify as an Aussie, really struggle to grasp how to say it, and look it’s not your fault. My mum, who is actually here tonight from overseas, thanks for coming. 

[Woo in the crowd].

L: Um, she never thought I’d be living here, so she didn’t bother to check with you how you might pronounce it. [Crowd laughs]. And so, I really wanna help you, so we’re gonna do this one time. I’m gonna say my name again and then we’re going to say it together, okay? [Crowd laughs]. Ready? My name is Lee-él. And now you. [Liel and crowd says it together]. Good job, that’s it. [Crowd laughs]. So when you’re going to tell all of your friends about the podcast after tonight, just practice saying it over and over. [Crowd laughs]. Okay? Great. And if you don’t know who I am, my name is Liel K Bridgford, I’m a writer, poet, podcaster and a disability and justice advocate. By day, I also practice as a Provisional Psychologist, and a trainer. Uh, that’s a mouthful, and I identify as a proud disabled person, an immigrant, and a non-conforming female. [clicking in the audience] And now, let me tell you about the story behind the Unmarginalised podcast. 

L: In one of the most locked down cities in the world, you had to do something different to survive. Your previous coping tools were probably unavailable, now locked away by the virus and our government’s response to it. You got up each morning and wondered how you were going to get through the day. The hours stretched beyond comprehension, you never knew time could change like that. We all did something, anything, to get by, to pretend like we weren’t aching for our families abroad, or across town, to numb the terror of the unknown or the grief for the life lost at once. You may have chosen a liquor, or scrolling, or walking in circles of 5kms, of course. [Crowd laughs]. Um, I chose podcasts. It was a form I didn’t really know before. I mean people would talk about podcasts and I couldn’t understand the buzz, it was just a bunch of people talking, right? Wrong. Lockdown taught me to love this form, even though I thought I couldn’t take on information from just verbal communication. I’m that person in lectures that writes every single word the lecturer says, you know the one at the front that doesn’t talk to anyone? [Crowd laughs]. That’s me. Um, but not when listening to engaging podcasts about things I’m passionate about. I found the two topics I am most fascinated by, explored deeply and in accessible language and format, heavenly. I listened to every episode I could find on feminist storytelling, cultural criticism, as well as some disability-led shows. It was a learning experience at a time I thought learning was impossible. After a while though, a niggling feeling of dissatisfaction sprouted in my stomach. With each new episode I started noticing how a very successful disability show wasn’t touching on many topics that are integral to my disability experience. Things like consent, gender, Instagrammable ableist parenting expectations were being totally ignored. It struck me how a lot of the guests on these shows were quite privileged people which skewed, again, the content of these shows. The hosts of these shows, it felt to me, like they were broadcasting from another planet, one in which things were easy to dissect and solve. One in which they belonged. After a while, I couldn’t listen anymore. I wanted to listen to stories of people who were dealing with similar problems to mine. At the time, I was a disabled person — still — dealing with workplace discrimination, access to childcare barriers, isolation from family and from health supports. The emotional and physical pains that I was going through which I knew weren’t unique, were being totally ignored in the popular storytelling scene. This lack of representation is so common, and as many marginalised folks would know, it has a way of making you feel powerless and isolated. Because if I don’t belong in the feminist world, or the disability world, where could possibly be my place? I decided to do something about that, um, and the idea for the podcast started brewing. A few weeks later, I resigned from my job then, in the mental health field, and ah, on my first free day I met up with a friend who I told about my idea, Matt McCleish, and we workshopped some details over a coffee in the summer of 2020. It was a break between lockdowns, I swear [Crowd laughs], and we decided on things like the name, (Un)marginalised, and the format and the host, yours truly. 

L: I was terrified of what other people are going to think. But also, pretty proud that I jumped straight into a new creative form, a form that allowed me to share stories of other marginalised people. My guests and I delved deep into the complex reality of belonging to multiple marginalised communities. In April 2021, we released the season and received such heart-warming feedback. Thank you [Crowd applauds]. Ending the season was a disappointment. I wanted to keep going but I couldn’t without some financial support to pay for things like podcast hosting subscription and recording programs. Who knew you had to pay money for that? [Crowd laughs]. Not me, but sharing the stories of other marginalised people has become an important passion for me. The mission of the podcast is to create spaces where multiply marginalised people can be ourselves, share our stories and connect, because there is no greater factor in healing, as well as individual and social change than connection. With that mission in mind, I braved a few grants applications, and I’m so humbled and proud to announce that the second season of the (Un)marginalised podcast and this launch event tonight have been produced thanks to the support of the City of Melbourne Arts Grants. [Crowd clicks]. Thank you. 

L: For the next part of the night, I’m so honoured and humbled to introduce my guest, Carly Findlay. Carly works as Melbourne Fringe Access Advisor. She works to educate artists, venues, and the wider arts sector in creating accessible shows and builds and maintains close relationships with Deaf and Disabled artists. Outside of Fringe, Carly is an award-winning writer, speaker, and appearance activist. Her first book, a memoir called Say Hello, was released in January 2019. Carly edited the anthology Growing up Disabled in Australia with Black Inc books. She writes on disability and appearance diversity issues for news outlets, including the ABC, The Age, Sydney Morning Herald, SBS, CNN and Vogue. I know. [Crowd laughs]. In 2020, Carly received, oh, my Zoom, Carly received the medal of the Order of Australia for her work as a disability advocate and activist. She’s a new roller-skater, a lifelong Darren Hayes fan and has never met a cheese she didn’t like [Crowd laughs]. It’s critical. Please help me welcome Carly Findlay. [Crowd applauds]. Carly. Hopefully she can hear us from backstage. Welcome Carly. 

Carly (C): Thank you for having me. 

L: thank you for being here tonight. 

C: Thank you.

L: Your bio mentions a little bit, and people might know, but can you tell us what intersections of identity do you navigate, for people who may not know?

C: Um, well, firstly I want to absolutely recognise my privilege, um, and also acknowledge that we’re here, on, you’ve, I know you’ve already done it, but 

L: Yes

C: I’ve arrived on, um, uh, unceded Aboriginal land. We’re on Wurundjeri Woiwurrong Country, I believe here. 

L: Okay

C: And pay my respects to Aboriginal Elders past and present, and extend my friendship to Aboriginal people who are in the room or watching the livestream or listening to the podcast. So thank you. Um, I intersect a number of identities. Um, I am a woman, I identify as disabled and I hadn’t, or, like I hadn’t always even though I have had a skin condition uh, and experiencing disabling things all through my life, I didn’t always recognise that. And I am a woman of colour, but that is also very hard to tell, I get a lot of assumptions that I am white. My mum is a coloured South African, that is her way of describing herself. I know that’s not the most politically correct term now, but she used that when she was in South Africa, and now, and she had to come to Australia to marry my dad, that’s where I intersect. 

L: Yeah

C: I also grew up in the Country, does that, is that a marginalisation? [Crowd and Carly laugh. Someone yells yes]. Yeah

L: So can you give us an example of

C: Mmhmm

L: what, I guess belonging to all these communities for you, a time where you faced barriers because of

C: Mmmmm

L: belonging to all these marginalised groups?

C: Recen— most recently, I, I think I became comfortable as a disabled person, disabled woman and so I got okay with managing that part of my identity, cause for so long I was just, um, you know, trying to manage a lot of ableism and I guess shame, and tried to find pride within myself. And it’s quite hard to find pride when you don’t see yourself represented and don’t, umm, you know, aren’t respected I guess my strangers in society, you know, with ableism thrown at us. Ableism is discrimination towards disabled people. Um, and so yeah, for a long time I didn’t really see myself, um as a person of colour and I never really understood that, or or made time for that maybe.

L: Mmmm

C: And it was only when I got comfortable with that disabled identity and then other people started calling me that and I felt like I didn’t, I couldn’t, I felt like I couldn’t take up space because I wasn’t

L: Mmmh

C: I wasn’t Black enough. And I know for many people with ichthyosis, I’m not speaking for everyone but I haven’t met many people with ichthyosis who are as comfortable in their skin as I am. 

L: Mmmhmm

C: And you know, and that that might be where they airbrush their photos, or you know, use filters on their photos, or deny that they’re red, or deny that they’ve experiencing disabling barriers.

L: Yeah

C: Or deny that they look like someone else with ichthyosis because someone with 

L: Mmmhm

C: ichthyosis, the skin condition I have, is more likely to look like another person with ichthyosis than they are, their sibling, that’s how the genetics work. 

L: Mmmmhm

C: You know I’ve met lots of people around the world that look like me, and it’s pretty amazing, but also getting mistaken for kids, you know. 

L: Oohhh

C: You know, I remember being at a party on the Gold Coast, but this drunk person came up to me, and is like oh my god, I saw you, I saw you on, in Brisbane, you know three weeks ago, or something. And I said, oh no I’m I’m from Melbourne, and they were insistent, absolutely insistent. 

L: Yeah

C: And they’re like yeah yeah you were at this thing, and oh no no, wait, how old are you? [Carly laughs]. And you know, I must’ve been in my mid thirties then and I said, you know that — oh no no I think this person was only 11. [Crowd and Liel laughs]. I get a lot of lateral violence in the disability community and a few, a couple of years ago, when Black Lives Matter, um, got more prominence, particularly in Australia, I had written a piece about how I want to speak about rasial—racial stuff more, but sometimes I don’t get believed because people see redness, not race, I guess. 

L: Mmmm

C: And I wrote this piece, I’m Not White, and part of the lateral violence that I experienced within the disability community was, um, yeah, that, you know, that I’m faking my race, and my disability. 

L: Mmh. You know, you’ve already answered part of it, 

C: Yep

L: my next question, which is going to be, when belonging to all these communities, actually facilitate joy or connection,

C: Ahhh

L: Or meaning for you

C: That’s good. 

L: Which I mean you’ve touched on it. 

C: She might not know this but one of my personal mentors is Namila Benson, who works on the ABC and [Crowd clicking], [Carly laughs]. I can hear some clicking. Um, Namila works in artworks, and she was the, um, host of, ah ABC RN’s arts program, um, she’s a broadcaster like on community radio and she’s had me in to train, and I met her on the train once, like she used to follow my blog years ago, and I knew her, um, I knew her cousin. And we met on the train, and you know, we’ve been in-real-life friends since you know then, ten years ago. And just the relatability, I feel like with being it, with another person of colour, woman of colour is just amazing and just look to her so much, and just that. 

L: Yeah

C: Yeah, she’s really helped me and even just being, um, yeah, even just being around other people of colour, First Nations people, that has helped me. But also in the disability community, that’s been amazing as well, you know, lots, I can see some people here that I know tonight, you know fri—disabled friends, which is really exciting, so yeah

L: Yeah

C: it’s been, you know, and then so many opportunities as well, like – 

L: You kind of talk about the lateral violence 

C: Mmhm

L: As well as the meaning and connection and so many of my guests over the last couple of seasons, talk about belonging to multiple communities can be so hard with a sense of inclusion.

C: Yeah

L: I’m wondering for you, what does help you feel that you belong somewhere? 

C: Yeah, that’s a good thing. I think people just getting it. Ahh, but also I think sometimes there’s a danger of not, not seeing colour, or not seeing race, or not seeing disability,

L: Mmm

C: And then there’s a danger of like not creating any kind of inclusion, 

L: Mmm

C: So for example, I went overseas and I stayed with a family who should’ve known me, and they didn’t prepare their children, and so I was like [Carly laughs in disbelief], I was overseas, you know, for the first time, which was great, but the children wouldn’t look at me, wouldn’t speak to me, were hiding behind their parents legs. And when I was saying to them, oh do you want me to talk to them why I look the way I do, they were like oh no no, it’s fine, it’s fine, and that was really hard,

L: Yeah

C: so preparing people 

L: Mmmm

C: And I think one of the things is, especially when, if you’ve got children, I’m not saying set your kid up with an Instagram account, I’m saying when you’re on social media, scroll through and show them different people. Prepare them for that, 

L: Mmmmm

C: because I can tell you Namila’s kids, you know, other people’s kids, they’re amazing because they’ve seen me online, and there’s no

L: Yeah

C: You know. 

L: And what you said about people actually getting it, I think it’s very hard for people to get it. But I think what’s helped for me at least, feel a sense of belonging is when people actually drop their assumptions and just bring a sense of curiosity and acceptance.

C: Yep 

L: Of the way people looking different, or doing things different or walking different, or whatever it is, um, because we have so many assumptions and then when we don’t meet them, then we get excluded, 

C: Mmmm

L: but when I think, and it’s so hopeful, I think all of us can actually learn to do that.

C: Mmmhmm

L: And it comes to your point of preparing people and diversifying your feed

C: Yeah 

L: We can all learn to 

C: Mmmh

L: become curious and be accepting

C: Mmmh

L: And that can create change within ourselves and within our communities as well. 

C: I think curiosity though can be tricky,

L: Mmmh 

C: because people [Carly laughs], I don’t know, if I’ve met them and then, and then they’re being curious about something 

L: Yes

C: for the whole time I’ve been with them, and then they suddenly launch into

L: Yeah

C: And we shouldn’t have to

L: I think there’s a difference between curiosity and nosiness

C: Yes [Carly laughs]

L: Like you can be curious about how people live their life and be interested, but not be nosy and ask inappropriate questions [Liel laughs]

C: Yeah. You can have this really normal interaction with someone, and then you realise that they’re thinking about something ridiculously ableist while

L: Yeah

C: Or racist while you’re sitting there. That’s a really weird thing as well you know, how

L: Yeah, absolutely. 

C: It’s like they haven’t been focusing on you, in a respectful way, they’ve just been wanting to launch into that. 

L: Mmmh. And I think it will be, it is more common for disabled women [Carly laughs] and disabled gender non-conforming people. 

C: Yes

L: Um, which actually brings me to my next question. 

C: Mmhmm? 

L: I think there’s so much work right now, disability advocacy, and feminism 

C: Mmhmm 

L: And there’s anti-racism work. But to me, it feels like they’re kind of don’t often overlap enough. 

C: Mhmmm 

L: What do you think about

C: Well most—

L: Integrating them?

C: I think firstly we have to make all of them accessible for disabled peoples. 

L: Yeah

C: So all of the workshops, or whatever you’re holding, are accessible for all the people, because disabled people make up 20% of the population and chances are they’re going to be in your marginalised community, you know

L: Yeah

C: If you’re in the LGBTIQA community, or the, um, People of Colour community, First Nations community, etc,

L: Yeah

C: They’re gonna, there’s gonna be disabled people, so make it, make your stuff accessible. 

L: Yeah, you know, absolutely

C: Yeah and inclusiv—and you know, have, ensure that you invite people on your things

L: Mmmh

C: From a disability perspective, but from all kinds, you know. 

L: Yes

C: An intersection.  

L: And I guess some people in the audience tonight might be wondering, well why do we need to integrate those things, I mean it is different, disability advocacy and feminism, they’re not the same thing. I think it is important to highlight that, those works are not as affective when they’re separate, and one issue that really exemplifies that is sexual violence. 

C: Mmmhm

L: Because most of you tonight would know that girls and women are more likely to ex—and gender non-binary people — are more likely to experience sexual violence than men and boys. But do you know that disabled girls and women and non-binary people are even more likely to experience sexual violence? So, so many of us experience that, and I mean, it happened to me several times, and my sex, my gender, and my disability have always been essential to that experience. And one example, which I’m not going to go into any details about, but I was sexually assaulted by a doctor, who was examining me for my disability. [Crowd reacts], so if I wasn’t disabled, I wouldn’t have been in that room. And mainstream feminism does not address this issue. 

C: Mmhmm 

L: And disability advocacy by itself doesn’t often address this issue either. 

C: Mmmhm 

L: We have to, there’s a power imbalance. And we have to shift the power imbalance. 

C: Mmmhm 

L: And I’m not saying I have an answer to it, but I think we definitely have to centre the lived experienced of multiply marginalised people in these works. 

C: Mhmm 

L: So feminism has to include disabled people [Crowd clicks]. And disability advocacy has to include diverse disabled people, you know it has to include [Carly laughs], diverse genders, diverse cultures of people

C: Yeah

L: In order to be actually effective and address these problems, and I think we should integrate them as we do on the (Un)marginalised podcast. 

C: Yeah absolutely, and I mean I think that when you have disability, sorry, when you have a Women’s Day event that the disabled person is a disabled man, speaking, that’s not good enough. 

L: Because when people think of disability

C: You know I just said 

L: Like inclusion of a ramp, I mean great, a ramp is great, I love a ramp [Crowd and Carly laughs], but it’s not enough

C: It’s not enough. 

L: Okay?

C: It’s not enough. It’s not great, it’s not great on roller-skates, yeah. 

L: My final question to you Carly

C: Yeah, uh-huh

L: tonight, which I like to ask all of my guests on the show 

C: Okay

L: What does intersectionality mean to you?

C: Mmmh. I think it means, recognising that we have mar—like many facets of, that make us up, and that it is, you know that thing where “she doesn’t let her disability define her” [Liel and crowd laughs], um, like let youR thing define you, it’s okay, you don’t have to hide it away, you know

L: Mmmhm

C: [Crowd and Liel clicks] You don’t have to ignore it and pretend like it’s not there, so you know, let that, but also like find, find pride

L: Yeah

C: I’ve been thinking a lot about this like, I saw a really great event that Caroline Bowditch, who’s CEO of Arts Access Victoria, um, spoke at the other day, cal—a Meeting Place event, and she said that she really wants to see disabled people in leadership positions because, in, like in disability related, but in all leadership positions, but particularly when they’re disability related, and the disabled person needs to be out and proud. 

L: Yes

C: Like, I want to see this. I want to see, um, you know, out, out-ness, I guess.

L: Yeah

C: And, um, out, of, of other marginalisation as well

L: Yeah

C: I think that that is important. So obviously safe spaces need to be created.

L: Yep 

C: We’re stronger together. That’s what intersectionality means to me. 

L: Ahh, yah. Beautiful. 

C: And that, you know, we we look at all facets

L: Yeah

C: And you know for for allies, see colour, see disability, see race, gender, sexuality. 

L: Thank you Carly. 

C: Great, thank you. 

L: For me, I think intersecti—intersectionality is very similar to yours, in I guess people being able to be themselves, and I think creating spaces like these, and collaborating and being allowed to tell our stories and connect. Um, what I’ve learnt over the last couple of seasons is that we’re all so similar, in not, not in everything, but in our desire to be seen, in our desire to be loved for exactly who we are, with all of our identities, and we all want to live our best life, a meaningful, joyful life, and we can do that if we have adequate, equitable support and autonomy. [Crowd clicks]. 

C: Mmmhmm

L: Thank you Carly, and—

C: Thank you. Thank you for having me, that was very quick. 

L: It felt very quick. But we do have some time for audience questions now. 

Audience member 1 (AM1): I just wanted to ask about your outfit. Can we just, while people [Crowd and Liel and Carly laugh], have a moment to think about, you know, more deep questions, can we just celebrate um, the both of you as disabled fashion icons? 

C: Do you wanna do a—

AM1: Can we have a bit of a walk because yeah? [Crowd cheers and laughs]. Yeah

L: Did I show you the side?

AM1: No you didn’t but you look fabulous and thank you for being visibly disabled and doing the work for you. 

L: Thank you Carly, I’ve got some questions coming from people at home. “Such an incredible event Carly and Liel, what do you think when people say, I don’t see your disability?” Well I think we touched on that, but I think when you don’t see my disability you don’t see me. Um, you don’t see that I need a seat. 

C: Yeah

L: I need a fucking seat, okay. [Crowd – yeah!]

C: Yes [Liel laughs]

L: Ah, so if you don’t see my disability, you don’t see my access needs, 

C: Yeah

L: You don’t see my identity and my community

C: And also like there’s that shame thing, as well

L: Mhmmm

C: like if they, if they think disability so shameful, they’re like well we’re not going to see that side of you, because we don’t want you to feel ashamed. 

L: Exactly. But we, I mean, um, both of us 

C: Yeah

L: Here, are not ashamed

C: Mhmm 

L: of we who are, we refuse to be ashamed. We have a, I think it’s a question for you, Carly. What advice do you have for dealing with trolls? I’ve started speaking out more [Carly scoffs], and while there’s a lot of support, there is a lot of horrible people out there. 

C: Mhmm. Now I just block them. But I think that Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram have some really good features in that you can control what words pop up in your mentions. 

L: Mmmm 

C: So on my Instagram and Facebook I think, and and Twitter, I’ve like muted all of the R-word, M-words, S-words

L: Yeah

C: All of those words

L: If you don’t know, just Google [Liel laughs]

C: Yeah. I don’t — but don’t. But, yeah you should know them. I mean you shouldn’t use them. 

L: Exactly. But you should know what we’re talking about when we’re talking about ableist slurs. 

C: Yes, yeah. We don’t need to explain what the words are.

L: Yes

C: Um, so yeah I I do that but now I just block them. But also, you can control who sh—who responds to your Tweets.

L: Okay [Crowd laughs]. What’s one small step we can do every day to be more intersectional and acknowledge all of ourselves? So it sounds like it’s coming from someone who is also navigating intersectionality. I think I small step is kind of actually saying that to yourself and find people from your communities, ah, listen to the (Un)marginalised podcast if you haven’t listened already 

C: Uh-huh

L: But I think really saying that to yourself and saying that’s okay, and be out and proud as Carly said, and like our intersectional identities are really good bullshit detectors, and so if you 

C: Yes

L: kind of go to someone and go, I identify as whatever you identify as. If someone responds badly to that, you kind of know they’re not your people. Um, but you will see from people’s responses

C: Mmmmm 

L: who are your people. 

C: And also like, um, if you experience barriers, you are, you know, disabling barriers, then it is okay, to call yourself 

L: Disabled 

C: Disabled

L: Exactly. 

C: Like if you’ve got a, you know, a an impairment or a diagnosis that hasn’t happened yet

L: Yeah

C: But you suspect that you might have it and you’re still experiencing these barriers, then it is okay.  

L: Yeah, we have another question. Thank you Carly, another question. 

C: Great

Audience Member 2 (AM2): Hi, um, recently I’ve experienced, um, sexism and ageism, and it was a woman with colour and then by another woman with colour. And then I was really questioning that, you know, I’d love love to support other women, but when you know, sometimes that discrimination can come from

C: Mhmmm 

AM2: you know, people who are also in the same category, and you know, I’m sure even within disability sector, or wherever

C: Oh yeah

AM2: So how can I keep up with that, you know, without losing my hope? That we can still kind of stay together and be strong together, how you know? I just wanted to seek your advice. 

L: Yeah. It’s really hard, I think that it’s okay to sometimes feel like things are really hard, and just acknowledging that it is hard, is a good step to then finding that hope. Um, not to try and kinda suppress it because it is real, and actually acknowledging it is real, the barriers that we face are real, and the discrimination we face is real. And again, I think find your people, don’t give up on finding your people, I think that’s probably, if you’re feeling like that a lot of the time, it probably means you haven’t found your people yet. And I’ve only found, you know, people that share a lot of my identities really recently, and I’m in my 30s. It took me a long time. 

C: Mhmmm

L: Um, I think continuing to go to different places that you haven’t tried before that would kind of be my main advice, and that, yeah actually acknowledging that. I found a lot of people online, I don’t know, that’s obviously, there’s bad and good in there. Yeah, I don’t know Carly if you’ve got another tip. 

C: Yeah I’d say that, and also what Liel said before, you know, listening to this podcast, finding

L: Yeah

C: other guests that have been on there, connecting with them. 

L: We have another question from online. “What are both your hopes for the future in terms of disability inclusion?” I’ll just start with saying that I think it’s kind of what I was talking about before, I think my hope is that disability inclusion is not gonna just include disability

C: Mhmmm 

L: it’s gonna be integrated with feminism, integrated with anti-xenophobia, integrated with anti-racism. It’s gonna be integrated, otherwise I don’t see those works as being as effective. Any other hopes from you?

C: Yeah, I I really hope that disabled people are paid meaningful money for 

L: Yeah

C: meaningful work, um, you know, many disabled people are still living in an, you know, in group homes and working in sheltered workshops for $2 a day. 

L: Thank you Carly. We have final question time. 

C: There was someone here

L: Is anyone—was someone that wanted a question?

Audience Member 3 (AM3): Hi. Um, I had a question about people that have less visible um, disabilities, say mental health for example. I know people who, um, you know, if they were outwardly um, you know, sort of out about that, that it could cost them their jobs, or other really significant things because those ah, certain conditions are really stigmatised. What would you say to people who are in those situations, who want to advocate, who would like to be visible, but don’t want to further disadvantage themselves by being out and proud as you, as you mentioned before?

C: I think firstly to overcome that internalised ableism, starting by sharing like wi—, reading about wide disability issues I think is important, like knowing that your experience isn’t the only disability experience, so reading up widely cause disability is diverse. And also, um, not, not letting the visibly disabled people be the only ones to speak up. So for example, if you’re encountering some sort of ableism, you know, say if someone uses the M-word, right in the office? And then, say, I’m, you know, hey please don’t use that word. Maybe the invisibly disabled person could speak up for once and not let the visibly disabled person do that. 

L: Mmmmh 

C: But also know that I think that disclosing disability and access needs. You don’t have to disclose your disability to ask for access needs, by the way, you can say

L: Yeah

C: I need to come into work at 9.30 everyday and work til 5.30, for example, because those times help me better, or, you don’t have to talk about why you need to do that.

L: Yep 

C: But also, um, you know, disclosing your, your disability, or talking about your access needs, I think that’s liberating, like you you don’t have to hide it anymore, it’s like oh my god I can breathe. 

L: Exactly. 

C: I don’t have to pretend I’m normal anymore. Normal in, you know [Liel laughs]. You can just be and it’s, and then you find your people. Yeah

L: Yeah. I think, um, it’s a great point as well, you can be a good ally and speak up, even if you don’t identify as disabled, or you don’t identify as someone who navigates intersectionality, you can speak up and say that’s not okay. Um, if you have more questions that we haven’t got to, go and find both of us, we have works available for everyone to read online. If you want transcripts of the episodes, more information and some more support options, all of that is available on my website, which is LKbridgford.com. The massive last thank you is to Carly Findlay for joining us tonight. 

C: Thank you. 

L: Um, Carly has donated her fee for participating to Face Equality International, which is going to be donated. [Crowd claps and clicks]. So thank you so much Carly, I really am so grateful for 

C: No worries 

L: You being here and all of your support. 

C: I don’t usually do that, just to [Crowd laughs], let you know, if you wanna book me. Yes

L: Thank you everyone. We need to bump out before they kick us out. [Crowd laughs]

C: Thank you. Thank you so much. 

L: Thank youuu

C: Byeee

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L: Before we go, a grateful thanks to the City of Melbourne Arts Grant 2022 for supporting this episode and the entire second season of the (Un)marginalised podcast. I would also like to respectively acknowledge the traditional owners of the land of which this episode was produced, the Boon Wurroung people of the Kulin Nation, and pay my respect to their elders past, present and emerging. Thanks for listening folks. A final note from me. This was the very last episode of season 2 of the (Un)marginalised podcast. We can only continue producing more episodes if we have enough listeners and financial means to do so. So, if you want to hear more, please support the show by heading to my Patreon on www.patreon.com/lielkbridgford. Starting from the price of a coffee per month, you will not only help make sure this works is going to continue to be available, but also receive exclusive behind the scenes content. Lastly, please share the podcast on your social media pages. It’s free, and all helps us with this work. Bye for now. 

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